De la máquina del tiempo: Una entrevista posiblemente demasiado amable con Rose Troche, directora de Go Fish

23 de agosto de 2022 En Entrevistas con cineastas

(En una voz femenina mecánica: sábado 8:55 am beeeeeeeeeeeeeep!!!!)

Rosa Troche in NYC: ?unless I break it down into, like, the scenes and what’s happening and how many minutes they are–estimated–apiece, I can’t figure out why I think it has pacing problems and so I’m just, you know?

Rick Powell in Chicago: So you’re actually doing something: you don’t have to write down in your little pad, “Still nothing done.”

RT: Still nothing done?uh, no, I’m actually doing something: isn’t that?it’s amazing. Well, Danny, um, is in town, uh, my manager, so we were out?what’d I do? Well, I worked during the day and then we, um, we went to dinner and just went to a bar very briefly and we got home at midnight?she’s kinda of a granny.

You’re kind of a granny?

RT: She’s una especie de abuelita.

What do you mean “she’s?”

RT: Dani. Oh, it’s a woman.

Ohh. D-A-N-I maybe. I see; She’s kind of a granny?okay, honey?let’s start talking.

RT: Okay we’ll?let me shut off my radio?

Okay, cool?

RT:So we’re recording.

Sí, así es.

RT:Um hmm.

Je je. Y tú tienes tantas cosas maravillosas que contarme.

RT: Hay tantas cosas maravillosas que decir.

Which you have said about three times now haven’t you?

RT: Lo cual está bien.

I have “questions for Rose” on my Newton.

RT: Questions for Rose: ‘What’s happening in Aida Rose?’ I’m trying to read Italian.

¿Sabes leer italiano?

RT: Nononono! It’s translated. Actually, the Italian’s on the opposite side so I’m sure I could start learning Italian if I just compare?

I’m sure. Okay, where’s my water? Actually where’s my beer?

RT: Uhhhh, I’m whichya. Where’s my forty-ouncer?

¿Qué Kevin? [blah blah blah] Uh, oh dios yo uh tengo que encontrar la caja de Kleenex porque somos tan jodidamente perezosos que no hemos...

RT: ?have not bought toilet paper.

?haven’t bought toliet paper.

RT: I’m whichya again.

Isn’t that pathetic? It’s so pathetic.

RT: Well, it’s been so nice having house guests ’cause like they’ve bought toilet paper for me.

Oh that’s good. I have never been at this state in my life ever before.

RT: ¡Awwwwww!

It’s just absolutely pathetic.

RT: Esto es parte de su rebelión.

Kevin says?I guess so?Kevin says hello. It is part of my rebellion.

RT: Dile hola. ¿Está sentado en el inodoro enfriándose?

Sí.

RT: Ir [indescifrable]

¿Qué?

RT: Ve a ayudarlo.

Lo hice.

RT: Oh, lo hiciste. Oh, vale.

I just walked in there and gave him the tissues. So let’s talk about film and uh?

RT:[sings to the tune of the Salt ‘n’ Pepa song] Let’s talk about film, baby?

Oh God how did?okay?

RT: Let’s talk about film.

What’s on your mind today, Rose?

RT: What’s on my mind?El problema con María. That’s not really on my mind. It’s just you know?I’m just you know?I should have had this done?being late is on my mind–always on my mind. You know, like, I don’t know?you know I’m chronically late?

Sí, lo sé.

RT: Ummm humm. [laughs] It hasn’t gotten any better [laugh] since I’ve become a big professional movie director.

(gran carcajada de Rick)

(jaja de Rose)

Well, that’s just gonna become your trademark you see?

RT: Dios mío, la gente NO lo tolerará.

They don’t tolerate it?

RT: Oh, no: they make YOU wait. You know, I’m on time if someone gets me there on time. But you know?

They have to wake you up and dress you?

RT: ?put on my diaper?

Entonces, ¿para quién has llegado tarde?

RT: ?powder my butt?[laughs]

¿A quién has llegado tarde?

RT: Ohhhhhhh. Ayer llegué tarde a la Agencia Gersch, que me representa. Quedé con la gente de la oficina de Nueva York y llegué tarde y me hicieron esperar una hora y media y tuve que estar en una esquina con un gorro de burro puesto... sí y hasta Dani tuvo que dejarme.

Entonces, ¿para quién famoso has llegado tarde? No necesariamente a personas, sino a organizaciones.

RT: Oh my?I don’t know?no, nobody like?nobody famous have I been late for. Those things make me too nervous. I was on time when I went to?like events I’m on time to?mainly ’cause there’s usually a free cocktail hour so you know I’m there–if I have that sort of incentive you know?

[laugh and a deep breath] Oh god?

RT: So then I’m there early, you know. I didn’t get there early?the GLAAD [Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation] awards were the other night so I didn’t get there early for that; but I have to say That Girl–Marlo Thomas–presented our award. My mother would have been so proud of me.

Oh really! Oh, that’s impressive. So what was your award?

RT: Oh, it’s for?it was for Outstanding Film for, uh, you know?

¿Ahora es una categoría que tiene nominaciones... todo el conjunto, toda la mierda?

RT: I don’t know how they come about doing it. You know, I think it’s like nominations, yeah?

Isn’t it sort of late?

RT: Uh, well, these are the 199?uh, yeah, it’s last year’s stuff. Like ’94 was last year and ’95 is really the ’94 awards, you know what I mean; so yeah?yeah, it is like, like, that’s difficult?because you know Ir a pescar has been?it has such history?

It’s so tired now.

RT:Sí. Je je.

So, uh, I like the?uh?we were talking about?whoever it was?saying that Ir a pescar was didactic?

RT: Oh yeah: Andrea. Andrea who’s, who’s, uh, what’s-his-face’s producer?um? What is his name?

GrEgG ArAkI. Sr. Bad Boy.

RT:Baaaaaaad Boooyyyyy. [sings] Talkin’ ’bout that Bad Boy.

Okay, don’t sing Rose; talk to me.

RT:¡Hah hah hah! Oh, ¡sólo quieres que vuelva a hablar mierda!

No, I don’t! Uh I just?

RT: She’s entitled to her opinion.

Well, obviously?

RT: And that’s all I said to her?[Big laugh] After?I threw her across the room!

I wanna know?that’s ALL she said? She thought?

RT: Ummm?we were listening to Nitzer Ebb en el camino a este bar y luego en el camino... en el bar estaban tocando Nitzer Ebb y luego en el camino de regreso a casa estaba tocando Nitzer Ebb de nuevo... ¿cómo puedes confiar en una persona así?

[Grandes risas]

RT: That’s El A ’cause Nitzer Ebb is so El A; so like: you know, we’re kinda rioting; we’re kinda rebellious, kind of?In a very posey way? She took me to this club, this sex club, which was later a sex club and I’m just like: what’s that big cross doing on stage? Where some lady gets tied up? I don’t know I was just like: o-kay here we are. It was so sterile. It wasn’t like a dungeon or anything. It wasn’t like seedy and sexy and wet. It was like dry and varnished and you know even those leather straps were like brand new, you know ?and everyone’s rubber pants and tattoos and piercings are all?

No hay pus ni supuración.

RT: What’s that?

Los tatuajes y los piercings: no hay pus.

RT: No hay pus.

No rezumaba nada.

RT: Todos se curaron muy bien y la cabina de bronceado ayuda...

‘Cause they all had their own doctors for each tattoo watching over the healing process?

RT: ¡Ja! Cierto, muy cierto.

So, so, yeah?you can continue to dish cause I’m sure people want to hear about?

RT: No, but I like Andrea very much; I just, you know, I just?

That’s not whom I’m talking about to you.

RT: Oh you’re talking about gReGg.

I want the whole?yes, I want the whole, the whole story about his walking out of?

RT: Oh, walking out?Oh, why?WHY I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GREGG ARAKI?

Sí, exactamente.

RT: Because yeah?because at Sundance he, he?after a good twelve minutes of Ir a pescar–which, which was, you know, probably the most didactic part–walked out of the movie and that’s because his boyfriend at the time–I don’t know if it’s the same boyfriend–was ill I was told. But to me all it looked like was he?just?his presence was noted in the room and he and his huge posse of like 40 people walked out?no actually it was only like 8 people or something. That’s?still that’s a lot to have get up?rustle rustle?creeeeeak?lights from the hallway come in?and you know, he walks out. But I was just, you know?and I’ve never?I’ve never?I’ve never even met gReGg yet, you know. Which is like another thing?we were both at Sundance and we, you know?it’s like the ever elusive GrEgG?you know, so whatevah. WHAT-EVAAHHH. I just figure, you know, at this point?I don’t know. I have to wait to see Generación Doom?but I mean, in terms of my respect for him as a filmmaker: it’s just like?you know?I think he’s just mediocre.

I think, I think it’s funny that Andrea called Go Fish didactic and what the hell does she think of uh, Totalmente jodido?

RT: [intake of breath] Riiight. I just don’t know.

(Risas mías)

RT: I don’t know. I think that?I think that GrEgG hypnotizes everyone who works for him and um?

Well, he is cute, I mean?

RT: Yeah?

He’s a cutie.

RT: He has like, you know?seances or something before they start production. I really don’t know. I don’t know. Everyone who works for him thinks he’s just like the shit?I think he’s a shit, too, but in a totally different way.

But you know, it’s also the sorts of issues you raise as oppossed to the sorts of issues gReGg raises or thinks he’s raising?

RT: Well, I think he’s so caught up in like this rebellious?you know: “I am a bad boy:” naughty, naughty. And that’s really, like?within the context of El A because no one’s even political in El A so, of course, in this, like, insular world that’s he’s stayed in, of course he seems like, you know, rebellious. But put that?contextualize that even in Chicago or New York that’s just like, like kid’s stuff and the?like, you know, the backdrop of everything? you know: the Godard posters, the homages are just so blatant?it’s so, so?it just reminds me of being 21. It’s so like angsty in that: I’m a little bit older and now?I’m looking at the world kind of way–so bad-poetry and self-indulgent.

Continuing…

I think it’s interesting to contrast the ending of Ir a pescar donde [ríe] Guin y Valerie retozan de felicidad... y el final de Totalmente jodido in which the uh?

RT: Well, actually they swallowed bleach before they went out which is why they’re so happy?they’re on a bleach high–a bleach and Ajax high [laugh] actually when they went out?doing some clean living.

I?you know when I saw that [the suicide scene in Totalmente jodido] the first time I laughed?

RT: Oh, it’s just?

?because I thought?I thought: this is a dream sequence right? This is his imagining killing himself. I’m like: he’s drinking bleach? Who the fuck?what the fuck is that?

RT: It’s retarded.

And then he falls into the?into the pool and I’m thinking?

RT: Everytime I see a pool in a shot I’m like: who’s gonna fall in? Any movie?I’m like: who’s gonna drown in the pool? Who’s gonna?you know?

No me conmovió lo más mínimo. Primero me reí cuando se cayó a la piscina y luego me cabreó que lo hiciera. Estaba realmente cabreado.

RT: Well, I think it’s also very similar to the ending of El fin de la vida. I think that he’s so self-conscious about being?he can’t give a happy ending. Do ya know what I mean? Like he’s kind of trapped in this persona as a filmmaker where he’s gotta give these kinds of ridiculous over-the-top endings in order to still be seen as this “that’s right I’m bad.” And people do kill themselves, but it’s just like the?there was no?and people might think that I’m just full of shit for this but I think there’s a certain responsibility that you have to have as a filmmaker, and it’s true that people kill themselves, and it’s true that there are very angry and fucked up queers in this world and?

And most of them don’t kill themselves though?I mean?

RT: Right. I don’t know. It’s just like he kind of puts things out there like flopping a dead fish on a table, you know what I mean: there it is, dunnit it stink? You know for me that’s just not?so where do we go from here? Then to me it’s only part of a story, and for him it’s the whole story.

RT: Después de ver eso, iba a llevar a Santosh a verla y pensé que de ninguna manera llevaría a un adolescente marica con el que tuviera una especie de relación de hermano mayor a esta película, ya sabes. Es como si no quisiera que vieran esto.

Yeah. I would like to think it’s so ridiculous it’s not even that powerful.

RT: Well it’s not powerful at all. It was?that was my total impression of the movie–it was completely sterile and passionless which is, I suppose, very El A.

Right. I know it’s ? there’s a certain void I feel when I’m there because first it’s such an apolitical climate and I just don’t understand how it could be when I think when?

(la cinta gira)

You were talking about El A, was what you’re talking about?you know: the void. [laugh] But you know we should probably stop talking about that. Because I want to talk more about what you’re doing and um ’cause none of that got recorded–the things that you’re working on?

RT: The things that I’m working on now?being primarily?uh, well, I finished my first script alone which is called Sangre y vísceras. Ummm?

Which didn’t have a title when you first?when I was in New York?

RT: No, it did not have a title?and then I decided on Sangre y vísceras and um, and, and it’s interesting?it’s interesting with the discussion of El A that, that, um?that ticking in the background is my toaster because there’s nothing to eat in this godforsaken home of mine except rye bread! [laughs] Ummm, so, um, well? Oh. So what? it’s interesting because, because when people in El A read my script they’re just like, oh you know: where’s the arc? where’s the?you know?where’s like, the kind of traditional act one, two, three and it’s, uh, you know?it’s, it’s and I don’t wanna?I mean when I write something all by myself, I certainly don’t make it in that structure because I find it boring and predictable, so it’s interesting to have other feedback from people in New York who like my script and people in El A who don’t. Because it’s not marketable.

Sí, bueno, eso me parece un cumplido así que...

RT: Right, right, you know?but then, you know?then we’re talking about?you know? This is a movie that I think will not, certainly will NOT make as much money as Ir a pescar; so you know it’s just?it’s difficult all around, you know. And I wasn’t trying to be difficult; I was just trying to do something that I felt?was about where I’m at in my life right now.

And you chose?you chose to write alone because?

RT: Oh, porque yo... necesito probármelo a mí mismo, ya sabes. Porque, ya sabes, escribir algo con otra persona y luego, ya sabes, tener un momento difícil... Quiero decir, Guin [Guinivere Turner] and I didn’t have a rocky time of it when we were writing Ir a pescar but we did in terms of, in terms of “Whose work is it?” You know what I mean?

There’s a certain amount of proving to myself that I can write something decent on my own. Umm and also, you know, make a film. I mean I need to do that for myself, you know what I mean and not be attached to this other person because it gets very? I mean Guin and I have fought so hard over like, you know, you know who’s, who’s more talented–I don’t know. [laugh]

Some ridiculous conversations. It’s just like?it’s like: well, I would suppose that if we were both nice and giving we both are, you know. But it’s?it just turns into something else you know: Oh look you got?they only want to interview you or they only want you, you know what I mean? This sort of pettiness that, you know–I just don’t like at all.

Was that a, uh?that sounds like it was sort of prompted by the press?

RT: Oh absolutely, absolutely. You know because in most, in most scenarios of what we’ve just gone through–what Guin and I have just gone through–someone who has co-produced and co-written an independent film you wouldn’t even know their fuckin’ name. Do ya know what I mean? You?you just wouldn’t. It’s just a world?it’s not a world that works that way and independent filmmaking?it’s like the director who’s the star so you really have to sit there and push for this other person to get attention–which we really did, you know and said like?and it’s a very honest thing because it’s like filmmaking doesn’t?I don’t know why the director’s the star because one can argue that, that, that the director only?how much of that you know? when someone says it’s a film by?I mean I sometimes question that ’cause I read the credits?I’m like: someone else produced it, someone else wrote it and the only thing you did was direct it. I mean, it is a really huge thing to direct but I don’t know if it should be called?all the credit should be given to only that one person; so we were kind of going?Guin and I were kind of going at it with that philosophy in mind.

Definitivamente vi el resultado de eso porque creo que... cuando estaba contigo siempre era, um, siempre estabas presionando con lo de la doble autoría.

RT: Right, you know?and that has become problematic ’cause there’s some times when people will be like: No, no; we only want the director to do this and then Guin gets mad at me, you know or something like that which is just like, you know? we’re trying to break some ground here, you know and uh, it’s, it’s been difficult, you know. It’s ego shit; all of it’s ego shit. Stuff like you wouldn’t even know that you were, like, that petty, you know, until the opportunity comes up and you’re right there with it. You know I’ve been surprised at my own behavior even—my own pettiness.

Sé que hemos hablado un poco de la cobertura de la prensa y de lo mucho que determina, en cierto modo, los parámetros de la discusión sobre lo que puede significar todo esto...

Well, right. Well they try?I mean the thing about the press that was the most difficult was that we didn’t know that we would be recreated. We kinda felt like: Oh well, no; we’ll just be put out there?I mean I remember the first photo shoot that we had?I mean,god?Guin and I?we were just?we were so, like, accomodating and so like?at one point neither of us had shirts on?

[Oh, Dios.

This is true. They wrapped us in like this satin?

Who’s this?

...y como: ¡Enseña tu tatuaje, enseña tu tatuaje! Era la revista Filmmaker y finalmente tomaron... había dos... en la portada de Filmmaker ambos terminamos en, como, estos trajes rojos con este tipo de fondo diferente de color rojizo-anaranjado; pero había una segunda parte de la sesión cuando llegamos por primera vez que se hizo con una especie de fondo azul-verde y Guin y yo estábamos envueltos en grandes franjas de satén...

¿Qué carajo fue eso?

Right! And I was like: what am I doing? Why am I doing this? How? Do I want to be represented as a filmmaker this way? It’s like seeing me in a dress. You know, it was just ridiculous. And I’m like: ‘scuse me “Is my boob hanging out again?” and everything would, like, drop and I couldn’t really move?anyway it’s just interesting the things that you’ll agree to do because you’re just like: Oh well, isn’t that what we do? We’re always accomodating; and you forget that you need to control your own image so much when you put yourself out there.

You know it’s really annoying to me, uh, they would never do that to Kevin What’s-his-name from Clerks. Would they ever ask him to take his?

RT: Oh my god, they would never, never?

Nunca se les ocurriría pedirle... ya sabes, envolverle en satén o pañales y que se quite la camisa o lo que sea...

RT: Oh my god, yeah. That would be frightening too; but you know?um?but, uh yeah, that’s really?that was really for both of us?we were just like o–kay and I don’t know, you know?you learn, you learn as you go on. And then also take that interview as an example. In that interview I was?I mean I met the woman who did the interview when I was in, when I was at Sundance and um, and she you know?we kind of talked and I kind of felt comfortable with her–I liked her and the interview’s like: verbatim. You know what I mean? I was just like: please edit me and don’t have me?the interview has me saying fuck at least twenty times: You get your fucking fat ass?[giggles] fucking piece-of-shit camera, you know, motherfucker, you know?like I sound like someone who just got out of the gutter, picked up a camera and made a movie and I’m like: okay I’m happy with that. I’m like, “Can’t you just make me sound smart. Please. Someone?”